Kashrut: Fact, Fiction and in Between part 27

Question:  What is the Kashrut status of food products labeled “DE”  (Dairy Equipment), or simply “D” (Dairy) with no milk products listed in ingredients?

Answer: At first glance, this would appear to be a simple question of “Nat Bar Nat”; Noten Taam bar Noten Taam” (A taste giver, son of a taste giver).  In the Talmud (Hullin 111b) we read “Fish that went up (‘alu) in a meat pot, may be eaten with Kutah (a type of condiment, similar to yogurt)” The vast majority of classical authorities, both Ashkenazic and Sepharadic, take this literally. Although food cooked in a non-kosher pot, under most circumstances, becomes non-kosher, this is not the case with pareve food. If it was cooked in a clean meat or dairy pot , it remains pareve, and may be eaten with the opposite type of food. RaN, in his commentary to Hullin 51a, explains this by saying that an UNKOSHER taste, so long as it is present, will render food unkosher. Since meat and dairy individually are kosher, a significant weakening of the taste is sufficient to render it halachically insignificant. There are, however, two dissenters. The Sefer HaTerumah suggests that “alu” doesn’t mean “cooked in a pot”, but merely was held or served in a meat utensil. The other dissenter is RIVAN, one of the Tosafists.  He quotes an otherwise unknown view of RASHI, that the Talmud is speaking only of a case of BOILING. That is, the meat imparted a taste to the pot, the pot to the water, and by the time the taste got to the fish, it has been rendered insignificant. If, however, the fish had been fried or roasted directly in the pot, it would be forbidden to eat that fish with dairy.  That is, RIVAN opines that an additional step is required for the principle of Nat Bar Nat to be efficacious. Rav Yosef Karo (MARAN), in the Shulhan  Aruch (Yoreh De’ah 95:1), rules in accordance with the majority opinion, that a pareve item can be cooked in a clean meat or dairy utensil and remain pareve. This is, in fact, the Sepharadic practice. Rav Ovadia Yosef (Yabi’a Omer Yoreh De’ah 9:3) rules that it is something that may be done in the first instance. As long as one is cooking pareve, there is absolutely no need for pareve utensils. On the other hand, Rav Moshe Isserles (RAMA), the main Ashkenazic voice in the Shulhan Aruch, opines that this is the case only b’diavad (ex post facto); if one has already placed the cooked fish, made in a meat pot, into a dairy dish, it may be eaten. However, in the first instance, one may not do so, unless there was an additional intermediate step.  This is the generally accepted practice of most Ashkenazim. Therefore, it would seem that a pareve item, made on dairy equipment (DE), would be able to be eaten with meat by Sepharadim, but not by Ashkenazim.

There is, however, another consideration. When it comes to admixtures of foods, or the use of utensils, only tastes that add a desirable flavor are of halachic significance. For instance, if a piece of slightly rancid, but still edible, pork fell into a kosher food (even hot food on the stove), one must simply remove the pork, and the kosher food remains kosher. This is called “Noten Taam Lifgam” (imparting a bad taste). In fact, once a utensil that had non-kosher food cooked in it has remained unused for 24 hours, we assume that the taste has either disappeared, or become unpleasant. Any kosher food cooked in it at that point will remain kosher (‘Avodah Zarah 67). By rabbinic decree, we may not do this in the first instance, lest we come to use such a utensil WITHIN 24 hours. All agree, however, that such food will nevertheless be kosher. The OU and other kashrut agencies label food made with dairy equipment as DE, or even D, for fear that the utensil may not have been clean. This would obviate both considerations of Nat Bar Nat, as well as Noten Taam Lifgam. But is this valid? Yes, in small stores, there is little quality control, other than health considerations. Even there, I am told by people in the food industry that when a government inspector comes to a store, the manager will “talk him up”, while a coded message goes over the PA system, warning employees to hide everything that is illegal. This does not happen in factories. (At least in the First  World countries). Although there is misinformation around since the mid-1960s that anything that constitutes less than 2% of a product need not be listed in the ingredient panel, the actual rule is somewhat less, namely, 10 parts per million (!!!). This is true of all things EXCEPT known allergens, such as milk, wheat, nuts, etc. These must not have ANY amount present, that is not listed on the panel. (FDA  food labeling guide, p. 18, #7). These rules are strictly enforced. In addition, a company would be very foolish to try and slip something like this by, thus opening themselves up to huge lawsuits. Claims such as frozen vegetables being cooked in water that had previously been used for noodles, thus rendering them unfit for Passover, are total fiction, promulgated by the kashrut industry. Rav Yitzchak Abadi (in my opinion, the greatest living posek), has been writing and preaching about this for decades. More can be found on his sons’ website www.kashrut .org. In any case,  all plants that process food on dairy equipment, must frequently examine their products for even the minutest traces of dairy, or else label their products as “may contain milk”. Harsh chemicals are used on all machinery after dairy is processed on it, assuring that no trace remains. This goes well beyond the halachic requirements of noten taam lifgam.

Conclusion: All products listed as DE, or D, with no allergy warning for “milk” on the label, are to be considered totally pareve, for both Ashkenazim and Sepharadim.